Comments on: The Journey Home http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/ Energies of the Trinity © P.C. Robinson 2004-2009 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:23:28 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Isa Almisry http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-5278 Isa Almisry Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:15:55 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-5278 Often when explaining how I feel about the Lutherans (I was ELCA), I also make the Titanic analogy: on her maiden voyage she stopped in Ireland, some passengers got off, and she sailed off into oblivion. I often, when looking at what the Lutherans are doing now, feel like I got off in Ireland. And many who have remained in the Lutheran communion none the less agree with me. As for the Theotokos and the saints and their "power," it's not them but Christ in them. Btw, I would hope more Lutherans would convert to Western Rite Orthodox (myself, I'm Arab, so going East was natural). Often when explaining how I feel about the Lutherans (I was ELCA), I also make the Titanic analogy: on her maiden voyage she stopped in Ireland, some passengers got off, and she sailed off into oblivion.

I often, when looking at what the Lutherans are doing now, feel like I got off in Ireland. And many who have remained in the Lutheran communion none the less agree with me.

As for the Theotokos and the saints and their “power,” it’s not them but Christ in them.

Btw, I would hope more Lutherans would convert to Western Rite Orthodox (myself, I’m Arab, so going East was natural).

]]> By: acolyte http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-3306 acolyte Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:43:45 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-3306 David, True enough, but the bible also picks out people like the Apostles or key disciples of theirs as special. Moreover, the bible indicates places where God has worked through and with a person to accomplish great things. Because such persons do what they do by the divine energies or powers, when we honor them we are honoring God's work. David,
True enough, but the bible also picks out people like the Apostles or key disciples of theirs as special. Moreover, the bible indicates places where God has worked through and with a person to accomplish great things. Because such persons do what they do by the divine energies or powers, when we honor them we are honoring God’s work.

]]> By: David http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-3289 David Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:16:04 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-3289 My question would be how a church or tradition can identify certain persons as "saints" when biblically the all the members of the church are saints. To not be a saint is to no be in the church. My question would be how a church or tradition can identify certain persons as “saints” when biblically the all the members of the church are saints. To not be a saint is to no be in the church.

]]> By: Darko http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-1516 Darko Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:04:15 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-1516 Dear Eric, my name is Darko Djogo and I live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Europe, and teach Christian ethics at St Basil of Ostrog Theological Faculty in Focha, BiH. The question you asked is very hard to answer from protestant point of view. First of all, you have to think another way: it is not so important who gave us an example of something, it is important who did something for us. Many protestant Christians even consider Christ as only one nice example of how to achieve moral perfection - in Orthodoxy we believe that he was the one who saved as from death and devil, by his incarnation, death and ressurection. Also, we believe that Saint did not just give us examples of how to be good Christians. We believe that they already achieved that state of deification which we all are going to achieve when Christ returns and that they do not forgive us, because Orthodox Church is a Community of love of all those who died, who live and of those who are yet going to be born. it is also very important that you should know that Orthodox Church believes in deification - Greek "theosis" that is we believe that good men will achieve one state of ore nature which will be, as far as man as created being can achieve, one state of similarity with God. church fathers even speak that men will be "gods according to grace" in difference with One God, holy Trinity which is God according to His nature. St Maximus the Confessor even says that we are going to have one feeling of no beginning and no end in our eternal life. If you accept that God will give all these gifts to his beloved sons - us, you will easily understand whay we do not accept that our spiritual fathers are death. We can not accept that dignity which God gave, gives and will give to his beloved creatures, for whom He was crucified is just moral perfection, as most Protestant congregations believe. So, we have EXPIRIENCE of what Christ answered to Sadducees / FOR GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEATH ONES, BUT GOD OF THE LIVING ONES. If i made many spelling mistakes, I'm very sorry, i learnt my English in school and never went abroad (we have one terrible war here). my e-mail is drdjogors@yahoo.com best Darko Dear Eric,
my name is Darko Djogo and I live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Europe, and teach Christian ethics at St Basil of Ostrog Theological Faculty in Focha, BiH. The question you asked is very hard to answer from protestant point of view. First of all, you have to think another way: it is not so important who gave us an example of something, it is important who did something for us. Many protestant Christians even consider Christ as only one nice example of how to achieve moral perfection – in Orthodoxy we believe that he was the one who saved as from death and devil, by his incarnation, death and ressurection. Also, we believe that Saint did not just give us examples of how to be good Christians. We believe that they already achieved that state of deification which we all are going to achieve when Christ returns and that they do not forgive us, because Orthodox Church is a Community of love of all those who died, who live and of those who are yet going to be born. it is also very important that you should know that Orthodox Church believes in deification – Greek “theosis” that is we believe that good men will achieve one state of ore nature which will be, as far as man as created being can achieve, one state of similarity with God. church fathers even speak that men will be “gods according to grace” in difference with One God, holy Trinity which is God according to His nature. St Maximus the Confessor even says that we are going to have one feeling of no beginning and no end in our eternal life. If you accept that God will give all these gifts to his beloved sons – us, you will easily understand whay we do not accept that our spiritual fathers are death. We can not accept that dignity which God gave, gives and will give to his beloved creatures, for whom He was crucified is just moral perfection, as most Protestant congregations believe. So, we have EXPIRIENCE of what Christ answered to Sadducees / FOR GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEATH ONES, BUT GOD OF THE LIVING ONES.
If i made many spelling mistakes, I’m very sorry, i learnt my English in school and never went abroad (we have one terrible war here). my e-mail is drdjogors@yahoo.com
best
Darko

]]> By: GEORGE http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-443 GEORGE Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:26:06 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-443 welcome brother Ezekiel I pray for you and your family welcome brother Ezekiel I pray for you and your family

]]> By: Erik http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-442 Erik Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:08:17 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-442 Dear Energies: I live in Spring Hill, TN. and sometimes attend Church with my wife at St. Ignatius. (Fr. Gordon Walker's parish) I am a member of an LCMS congregation, and very much at home there, yet I remain intregued by the Orthodox tradition. My main contentions/concerns center around the veneration of the Saints. I understand venerating them by thanking Christ for their example, however speaking to them directly and asking for their intercession goes too far. How can they hear us without being omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent. Based on our shared Christain beliefs, those are attributes that God alone can possess. This is particularly difficult during the Divine Liturgy...Fr. Stephen will speak of Mary, and the congregants chant "Oh Holy Theotokos save us." Though I have heard explainations concerning this, it still bothers me deeply. Anyway, I am asking for aid in better understanding these things. If it is not improper to ask, could you please contact me at my e-mail address e r i k _ t o f t @ y a h o o . c o m (without the spaces of course) Thank You, Erik T. Dear Energies:

I live in Spring Hill, TN. and sometimes attend Church with my wife at St. Ignatius. (Fr. Gordon Walker’s parish) I am a member of an LCMS congregation, and very much at home there, yet I remain intregued by the Orthodox tradition.

My main contentions/concerns center around the veneration of the Saints. I understand venerating them by thanking Christ for their example, however speaking to them directly and asking for their intercession goes too far. How can they hear us without being omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent. Based on our shared Christain beliefs, those are attributes that God alone can possess.

This is particularly difficult during the Divine Liturgy…Fr. Stephen will speak of Mary, and the congregants chant “Oh Holy Theotokos save us.” Though I have heard explainations concerning this, it still bothers me deeply.

Anyway, I am asking for aid in better understanding these things. If it is not improper to ask, could you please contact me at my e-mail address e r i k _ t o f t @ y a h o o . c o m (without the spaces of course)

Thank You,
Erik T.

]]> By: Perry Robinson http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-441 Perry Robinson Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:24:23 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-441 Matt, Uhm, I think you are confusing the Orthodox Church with the Catholic Church. His conversion was to Orthodoxy, not Catholicism. Furthermore, you seem to be equivocating on the term "satisfaction." And you seem to be confusing sola gratia and sola fide. They two are not mutually entailing. Augustine believed in sola gratia, but not sola fide for example. Matt,

Uhm, I think you are confusing the Orthodox Church with the Catholic Church. His conversion was to Orthodoxy, not Catholicism. Furthermore, you seem to be equivocating on the term “satisfaction.” And you seem to be confusing sola gratia and sola fide. They two are not mutually entailing. Augustine believed in sola gratia, but not sola fide for example.

]]> By: Matt http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-440 Matt Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:38:10 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-440 Sorry to hear about your exchurchbody that was divisive and not very loving and united. However, I'm curious as to how you cope with the thousands of inconsitencies from the popes of the 11th century on to the writings of the early church fathers and more importantly Christ and the apostles? I'm also curious how you could taste the goodness of the Lord through justification by faith alone, to a sect that relies on satisfaction in pennance. I know that it appeals to every natural man to take partial credit in their salvation, but certainly as a Lutheran, the idea of "grace through faith alone," must not be a foreign concept? I think Jesus said, you don't put new wine in an old wine skin, right? Sorry to hear about your exchurchbody that was divisive and not very loving and united. However, I’m curious as to how you cope with the thousands of inconsitencies from the popes of the 11th century on to the writings of the early church fathers and more importantly Christ and the apostles?

I’m also curious how you could taste the goodness of the Lord through justification by faith alone, to a sect that relies on satisfaction in pennance. I know that it appeals to every natural man to take partial credit in their salvation, but certainly as a Lutheran, the idea of “grace through faith alone,” must not be a foreign concept?
I think Jesus said, you don’t put new wine in an old wine skin, right?

]]> By: Clifton D. Healy http://energeticprocession.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-439 Clifton D. Healy Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:18:17 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2006/03/20/the-journey-home/#comment-439 Many years, Ezekiel! Many years, Ezekiel!

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